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Post by xti on Jul 3, 2013 9:39:03 GMT -6
GR WRX on Cobb OTS Stage 2 with a catless dp and Cobb SF intake and Invidia Q300 catback.
Don't do it.
I just looked at some logs from yesterday, and my boost numbers are all over the place, I've got quite a bit of learned knock and a small amount of feedback knock.
I'm not hitting steady boost numbers, but I'm hanging out in the 19.8psi-20.3psi range and I'm supposed to be hitting 18.5psi +/- 1.5psi according to Cobb Map Notes.
I've already switched to the low wastegate map, I'm about to switch to the extreme low wastegate map to see if that helps at all.
NOW, I KNOW COBB MAPS AREN'T SUPPOSED TO WORK WITH A CATLESS DP. I installed the dp knowing I was rolling the dice. The guy I bought it from ran the same dp on an exact clone of my car with the same mods for 2 years with no issues...I'm just lucky I guess.
I just ordered a catalytic converter that I'm going to have welded on next week. I'm really hoping that solves my issues. If not, then I'm getting a wideband and a custom tune. If that doesn't solve it then I'm taking off the intake. After that, I would be out of ideas.
Anybody else have any experience, good or bad, with this same set up?
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Post by besthaticouldo on Jul 3, 2013 9:49:44 GMT -6
dude...i would cancel your cat order.
email eric at torqued performance and for $120 bucks have him etune you and give you a really good tune. less money and a better set up.
FWIW a little bit of knock is not terrible. >1.5 is probably ok. it's the fine knock learned that you want to log.
I ran almost that same stage2 set up with a tiny bit of knock for about 9 months with no problems. it was fine.
can you email me the log and let me look at it? or post it in here.
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Post by memmek2k on Jul 3, 2013 10:13:33 GMT -6
I'm with besthaticouldo -- Protunes are the way to go, especially if you'll be done with power mods soon.
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Post by besthaticouldo on Jul 3, 2013 10:48:38 GMT -6
XTi, shoot me a text or call me if you want.
i have a ton of info about this stage2 stuff if you want. i spent about 40-50 hours researching before i got tuned and stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2013 12:17:12 GMT -6
I just looked at some logs from yesterday, and my boost numbers are all over the place, I've got quite a bit of learned knock and a small amount of feedback knock. I'm not hitting steady boost numbers, but I'm hanging out in the 19.8psi-20.3psi range and I'm supposed to be hitting 18.5psi +/- 1.5psi according to Cobb Map Notes. I've done my own tuning for awhile (open source) and that's the first thing I noticed. Boost swings, random AFR swings, etc... with a catless DP and high-flow intake. The intake from what I've gathered is the bigger issue with stuff like this. When you change the intake flow patterns, you impact a lot. You have to scale your MAF sensor to accommodate for the higher flow rate. The OTS maps are a shotgun blast effort to account for several variations of intakes and it's mediocre at best. Between that, the boost control (turbo dynamics), and tons of other parameters the ECU uses to "fix" the flow rate increase. These two mods (intake and DP) will greatly impact your final ECU numbers. I second and definitely agree with bestbesthaticouldo. Get an etune. Moreover I would suggest getting the wideband to aid in tuning. Best investment you can do especially going "stage 2" so you know your turbo is staying cool and you're hitting the numbers your ECU THINKS it's hitting. Some knock is ok from time to time, but you don't always monitor your ECU unless you run a AP all the time constantly watching FLKC and FBKC. The hotter it gets outside the more knock you will see as well. So many variables. A tuner will DEFINITELY be able to account for all the variables and get you a much smoother power curve and overall better driving experience. Sorry for the novel. Been at this awhile and I try my best to make sure people know what they're getting into when they make changes like this. You can buy all the bolt-ons you want, but making them work with each other via a nice tune is the best money you can invest.
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Post by xti on Jul 3, 2013 13:23:38 GMT -6
Well, I'm gonna get the custom tune anyway...I was just hoping to wait until December or so.
I was also planning on getting a wideband and a boost gauge whether the car was running flawlessly or not.
I just wasn't planning on paying for all that stuff right after I just bought and installed the dp, lol. I was hoping to be able to run the OTS map for a couple of months and then get the custom tune and such.
I definitely understand what you're saying about the intake and MAF sensor and all that, shisnick. I have suspected the intake to be the culprit all along.
Honestly, I didn't just buy the cat to try to run the OTS map. I think the exhaust is a LITTLE too loud, and I know the cat will tame the sound a tiny bit. I also think the exhaust stinks (my wife hates the smell), so I need a cat to fix that as well. Not to mention visual inspections when the time comes.
So, in review, I think I'll do all of the above.
Buy cat, install cat, get TP e-tune, get wideband, get boost gauge, get ap mount and leave it plugged in all the time to monitor FBK.
The time frame for all of that is questionable, though. Total investment to make a happy Stage 2 car: (cat + install) $150 + (TP e-tune) $85 + (AEM wideband) $200 + (boost gauge) $100 = $535 - (amount I'm short at the moment) $385 = (Total available funds for this project) $150
This is why I'm trying to do it in waves. Cat is the first wave. Then TP tune. Then wideband. Then boost gauge. Then smile.
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Post by scoobtube007 on Jul 3, 2013 13:28:34 GMT -6
You may also want to contact Jarrad from PDX. He'll do an etune for you as well. Not sure if his cost will differ from TP or not. I am actually getting ready to do the same. Used to run into the same boosting issues as you, just with my 07 and a catted DP.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2013 13:31:27 GMT -6
I would honestly suggest doing the wideband first so you have something to aid the tuner when the time comes. The cat can wait if your wife can. The factor MAP sensor can watch boost pretty accurately and you can log/monitor boost along with FBKC and FLKC on your AP so no need for a boost gauge....yet. Besthaticouldo will argue against a stand-alone gauge/sensor, but for the funds you have and staying stage two I would suggest the Innovate LC-1. There's a couple different versions of gauges that come with it, but for about $150, you get a wideband that you can log with. Seems to be one of the more compatible with logging devices and software. Either way, I suggest the wideband first to aid in tuning the other mods later.
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Post by besthaticouldo on Jul 3, 2013 13:32:22 GMT -6
I would skip the boost gauge IMO it's unnecessary if you have an AP. you can just use that as boost. As far as wideband, DON'T GET THE AEM. We need to have a sticky on why the PLX DM-6 is better. This is the gauge that 3 different well respected tuners told me to get. It's a better gauge and the install is easy and it looks OEM. www.plxdevices.com/product_info.php?id=WDBDSMAFR_DM6It's also expandable, so if you wanted to get the boost module, you could run it all in 1 gauge! Pretty cool, fully loggable and everything.
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Post by xti on Jul 3, 2013 13:40:57 GMT -6
Cool, thanks for the help guys. The boost gauge was just something I wanted because race car, lol. I didn't really think I NEEDED it. You may also want to contact Jarrad from PDX. He'll do an etune for you as well. Not sure if his cost will differ from TP or not. I am actually getting ready to do the same. Used to run into the same boosting issues as you, just with my 07 and a catted DP. Jarrad told me (when I spoke with him at Scoobapalooza) that boost creep is a mechanical issue. He said he can tune for it to an extent, but the only way to really combat it is with mechanical changes (such as a cat or EWG). Also, his cost is a pretty good deal more than TP. He was a super nice guy and definitely knew what he was talking about, but on a budget I'll probably go the TP route.
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Post by besthaticouldo on Jul 3, 2013 13:43:07 GMT -6
I have a torqued performance map and i absolutely love it. on e85 my car is a monster and we haven't finished tweaking.
boost creep is a mech issue, it is the reason i went with the EWG. you can help it with a 3port, which is something i'd suggest doing before your etune, it really helps with spool and boost reaction and recovery. get the cobb or grimmspeed one, ports are larger and thus it reacts faster.
as far as the boost gauge...i'd wait and do everything else first.
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Post by xti on Jul 3, 2013 13:44:04 GMT -6
On a different note........JP, are you seriously Peruvian? My dad was born and raised in Lima, Peru.
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Post by scoobtube007 on Jul 3, 2013 13:46:27 GMT -6
On a different note........JP, are you seriously Peruvian? My dad was born and raised in Lima, Peru. Yes sir. Born in Chiclayo, Peru.
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Post by xti on Jul 3, 2013 13:48:00 GMT -6
I have a torqued performance map and i absolutely love it. on e85 my car is a monster and we haven't finished tweaking. boost creep is a mech issue, it is the reason i went with the EWG. you can help it with a 3port, which is something i'd suggest doing before your etune, it really helps with spool and boost reaction and recovery. get the cobb or grimmspeed one, ports are larger and thus it reacts faster. as far as the boost gauge...i'd wait and do everything else first. I was told an EBCS is pointless on GR's...is that wrong? Also, I really want to be done spending money. If I can be fine without buying something else, I'd be thrilled. I don't need the fastest car on the block, and I don't care if I'm making a certain amount of horsepowerz or torquez. I don't want my car to be slow, but an average stage 2 car is really what I had my mind set on. The wife has a superhuman sense of smell....the cat cannot wait. I will definitely look into those wideband gauges you guys suggested, and I'll probably go with the TP tune as soon as I can swing it. Beyond that, though, I'm hoping I can just call it a day. Thoughts?
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Post by xti on Jul 3, 2013 13:49:51 GMT -6
On a different note........JP, are you seriously Peruvian? My dad was born and raised in Lima, Peru. Yes sir. Born in Chiclayo, Peru. I'm gonna have to ask you to remove the title, "THE Peruvian" as it implies you are the only Peruvian here...clearly you are not.
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Post by scoobtube007 on Jul 3, 2013 13:52:58 GMT -6
Yes sir. Born in Chiclayo, Peru. I'm gonna have to ask you to remove the title, "THE Peruvian" as it implies you are the only Peruvian here...clearly you are not. Request......DENIED hehehe. Additional peruvians can be titled as: "Another Peruvian", "That Peruvian", "A Peruvian", "Some Peruvian", etc
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Post by besthaticouldo on Jul 3, 2013 13:52:59 GMT -6
EBCS is not useless. i'd get that over a boost gauge.
i understand what you're saying. about done spending money.
i would say, cat, wideband, EBCS, tune and you're good to go...until the bug bites hard.
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Post by xti on Jul 3, 2013 13:58:14 GMT -6
I'm gonna have to ask you to remove the title, "THE Peruvian" as it implies you are the only Peruvian here...clearly you are not. Request......DENIED hehehe. Additional peruvians can be titled as: "Another Peruvian", "That Peruvian", "A Peruvian", "Some Peruvian", etc I'll accept "That Peruvian", it sounds mischievous.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2013 14:01:01 GMT -6
Cat, wideband, then tune. In that order. You can probably pick up a used wideband/gauge kit and replace the used sensor for less than $100 if you look enough. Just eat less cheeseburgers and save moneyz. Just saw Derrick's post. His laundry list. Get the EBCS. It's definitely worth it.
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Post by xti on Jul 3, 2013 14:06:31 GMT -6
EBCS is not useless. i'd get that over a boost gauge. i understand what you're saying. about done spending money. i would say, cat, wideband, EBCS, tune and you're good to go...until the bug bites hard. I just looked it up, I thought the EBCS was more expensive than that. For $115 it sounds worth it. Ok, so after I get the cat installed I'll push for a wideband...then pick up a 3-port...then immediately contact Eric for some TP tuning action. Mod bug may strike again after all of this is said and done....but we're buying a house in the next year or so, and I plan on keeping this car only until after we buy a house. Then I'll be moving on to a new STi...assuming they still have balls and don't look like a Toyota Corolla or something by that time. I've been making super aggressive payments on the WRX so that when I go to trade or sell, I'll have a nice downpayment on the new STi. For that reason, I have absolutely no plans to go beyond a well tuned stage 2 WRX....well, also because I don't want it to blow up before I'm done driving it, haha.
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Post by xti on Jul 3, 2013 14:10:16 GMT -6
Just eat less cheeseburgers and save moneyz. See, that's the problem...I do like cheeseburgers, and I am saving moneyz...I'm just not saving them for mods, lol. I'm saving moneyz for a downpayment on a house. Any mod money I have is from selling stock parts, or other random stuffs I have lying around. All extra money is being sucked into the future house vortex right now. I just watch it float toward the savings cyclone knowing I'll never see it again....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2013 14:13:19 GMT -6
I have absolutely no plans to go beyond a well tuned stage 2 WRX....well, also because I don't want it to blow up before I'm done driving it, haha. I've been running large injectors, large turbo, FMIC, TGV deletes, and high-flow intake for well over a year and no signs of a blow-up yet. Not saying all engines are made equal, but I bet you'll be fine if the mod-bug bites ya after all is said and done with the stage 2. POWWAAAA!!!!
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Post by xti on Jul 3, 2013 14:18:35 GMT -6
I have absolutely no plans to go beyond a well tuned stage 2 WRX....well, also because I don't want it to blow up before I'm done driving it, haha. I've been running large injectors, large turbo, FMIC, TGV deletes, and high-flow intake for well over a year and no signs of a blow-up yet. Not saying all engines are made equal, but I bet you'll be fine if the mod-bug bites ya after all is said and done with the stage 2. POWWAAAA!!!! Yeah, but I doubt I'll have it much longer than it will take for me to get bored with stage 2. I've already had it a year and I'm just now looking at stage 2, so I figure another year and I'll be craving MOAR POWA...at which point I'll be so close to a new STi I won't want to waste money modding a car I'm gonna sell soon. That's the plan at this point. We'll see what happens though.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2013 14:19:33 GMT -6
Word!
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Post by xti on Jul 3, 2013 14:29:07 GMT -6
BTW, I switched to the Super LWG map when I got back to work from lunch...so, I'll see what it looks like on my way home. I'm not expecting it to be fixed, but hopefully it's at least better. I'll post back here tonight with an update.
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