|
Post by andystl on Feb 5, 2014 9:46:56 GMT -6
I am wanting to do get into autocross this summer and was wonding if it would be a good idea to get a set of wheels & tires to use specifically for this. Do most people run their daily wheel/tire setup during autocross? Could anyone chime in with opinions on a good setup for this? I have a 08 WRX mostly stock. Upgrades: front strut bar, Invidia cat back exhaust. Purchased but not installed upgrades: AEM CAI, 2010 suspension, Invidia down pipe, grill, hellas & RA mudflaps. (I have a full plate for the next install day!) My next purchases will be SS brake lines, Master Cylinder Brace, pads & rotors. Am I missing anything to make this a good autocross setup while still being a good daily driver?
|
|
|
Post by besthaticouldo on Feb 5, 2014 10:00:33 GMT -6
Do you want to stay in a particular class or is it just for fun?
Also, let me know about all that brake stuff, I can get you a really really good on it all!
|
|
|
Post by memmek2k on Feb 5, 2014 10:23:00 GMT -6
Even for stock class, a separate set of wheels and tires is useful so you're not burning through your tires for daily driving. Autocrossing on all-seasons can be kinda rough if you're planning on doing more than one event. Which class you want to run it (and how much you're willing to spend) determines the recommendations for specific setups.
I'd also recommend a "performance" alignment - get as much negative camber in the front as you can and still have it be even, and then get the toe back to 0 all around if you're daily driving the car. That will help reduce understeer in autocross tremendously.
|
|
|
Post by andystl on Feb 5, 2014 11:31:13 GMT -6
It is just for fun, I would like to stay at the stock class if my current upgrades would allow for that. The budget for wheels & tires is $1000 max, hopefully that will get me something decent. I'm thinking I should probably upgrade the brakes before the wheels & tires. besthaticouldo, sending you a message now.
|
|
|
Post by memmek2k on Feb 5, 2014 12:07:35 GMT -6
Strut brace may have to go, cat-back is fine for stock. Have to get stock width wheels (but you can go up or down 1" in diameter), and you can run whatever tires fit (225s fit well on a 7" rim for autox). All of your planned non-cosmetic mods (except brake pad and rotor upgrades) are not officially legal.
Personally, I think the 08 sits really well in STX (one step up from stock), which is where I compete. If your downpipe is catted, all of your planned mods are okay except for the master cylinder brace. Technically for STX, you have to run the stock boost tables in the retune. But, if you're planning on running for fun, with Boeing, no one will complain about everything you have planned or a decent stage 2 tune; STX will still be a good fit. You are technically limited to 8" wide wheels and 245 section width tires for STX - the 11-14 WRX stockers are a great cheap option here. Or look for used RPF1s or other Enkei wheels.
|
|
|
Post by scoobtube007 on Feb 5, 2014 12:30:04 GMT -6
Honestly, the BSSC courses aren't serious enough to NEED a bake upgrade. True, SS lines are a good idea whether racing or DD, but just sayin. For entry Autox, like Michael said, get yourself a decent set of rubber (on a separate set of wheels wouldn't hurt depending on how many events you're planning on going to).
BTW, I ran my 07 wrx last year (stage 2 ots tune) with stock suspension, stock bushings, stock shifter, stock brakes, etc etc and decently worn Eagle Authority tires on oem wrx wheels. My times was pretty close to Michael's and his car has some more suspension work than mine. Just sayin.
|
|
smoke
Subie Newbie
Posts: 43
|
Post by smoke on Feb 5, 2014 13:03:41 GMT -6
Michael, JP just said you suck at driving.
|
|
|
Post by besthaticouldo on Feb 5, 2014 13:05:46 GMT -6
OH SNAP!
Throw down!
|
|
|
Post by scoobtube007 on Feb 5, 2014 15:04:44 GMT -6
Definitely not.
I'm just saying, maybe Andy is a natural born driver, and his car could blow his mind without modification. He could SMOKE us with his current stock set up.
Also, the GR and GD are two totally different animals.
Finally, I only ran in one autox event that Michael was participating in. SO, that may have been a fluke................Maybe
|
|
|
Post by andystl on Feb 5, 2014 15:39:59 GMT -6
Just from the handful of monthly cruises I have been on I have realized I need brake upgrades. On my last cruise after a couple fast corners there was a nice long hill. I hit it pretty good, about 3/4 way down the hill I pressed the brakes but very little happened. My foot went to the floor & I was not slowing down as I needed to be. It was enough to A) Make me pucker and B) Make me want a brake upgrade if I autox or not. For the record I know nothing about real driving, sure I know how to drive as fast as I can ... but as far as choosing a line, left foot braking, etc... I got nothing. That is something I am hoping to get better at this year.
|
|
|
Post by memmek2k on Feb 5, 2014 16:24:10 GMT -6
I don't contest I'm not the best driver. And the "some more suspension work" is aftermarket dampeners and sway bars with end links, lol. JP might be a faster driver, but you should listen to JP try to navigate... There's a reason the plan is for me to be codriver In terms of brakes for STL autocross and cruises, stock rotors with decent semi metallic pads will give you all the fade resistance you need (and more brake dust than you can shake a stick at!), and still be good for daily driving. The rest of your stopping power is in the tires. Derrick can offer reasons you might want to upgrade the rotors and calipers, though - I don't have a lot of experience there.
|
|
|
Post by dkdunn04 on Feb 5, 2014 20:28:43 GMT -6
If you are wanting some real race rubber, I have a guy who sells used tires. I had 285/39r18 Hoosier A6s, and they were $400 shipped, and lasted me all season. If the tires are more worn he sells them for $50 each.
|
|
|
Post by besthaticouldo on Feb 6, 2014 8:18:35 GMT -6
dkdunn04 - i am mildly interested in that...
personally i'd upgrade rotors, the stock rotors with really good pads can warp pretty easily if they're worn. i really like the DBA street series rotor, with the T slotting, it helps with heat and outgassing. you're less likely to glaze a rotor, which if you're hard to on the brake pedal like i am will happen.
as far as pads go...i'd probably look at Project Mu type NS or B FORCE, Hawk HPS, or StoptechST1 if you don't mind the dust.
|
|
|
Post by dkdekes on Feb 23, 2014 23:51:34 GMT -6
memmek2k: and then get the toe back to 0 all around if you're daily driving the car. That will help reduce understeer in autocross tremendously. I was talking to a guy today at an autocross who was driving a Fuubing fast evo on hoosiers. He beat two cars in prepared class, was first overall at the event. I asked him for tips on awd driving, and he said as far as setup goes, reducing rear toe is a really underrated way to get good turn in. We all know wrx's have god awful turn in from factory.
memmek2k: Strut brace may have to go,cat-back is fine for stock. I ran boeing autocross and they put my in stx only because i have a brace lol. Had a catback but I could have gotten into stock for it.
scoobtube007:BTW, I ran my 07 wrx last year (stage 2 ots tune) with stock suspension, stock bushings, stock shifter, stock brakes, etc etc and decently worn Eagle Authority tires on oem wrx wheels. My times was pretty close to Michael's and his car has some more suspension work than mine. Just sayin. This is what autocross should be like. Its so cheap, so people focus on improving themselves more than the car. Props to JP
andystl: I hit it pretty good, about 3/4 way down the hill I pressed the brakes but very little happened. My foot went to the floor & I was not slowing down as I needed to be. Air in the system/worn pads? Just a suggestion.
I was actually just looking around to find out more about the rear toe adjustments and see if anyone has done and can vouch for it. Seems like it would make a big difference.
|
|
|
Post by memmek2k on Feb 24, 2014 11:58:42 GMT -6
My toe recommendation is for tire wear in daily driving, not for autocross. Non-zero toe is what chews tires up more than increased negative camber, so if you're autocrossing and daily driving on the same alignment, you want zero toe or very close to it. More negative static front camber is expressly to fight the shortcomings of macpherson struts and how they lose camber under load - as the car rolls in the turn, you want the amount of negative static camber in the outside wheel to result in the tire having the greatest contact patch area at maximum cornering force. Since andystl isn't going to be putting 8k springs on his car, he needs more negative static front camber. It has the added benefit of increasing grip at the front, rather that making the rear more lively - a safer decision again for a DD. Now, if it's a race-specific alignment we're talking (which, is probably what the evo on hoosiers is for, or he swaps between two alignments at the track), then you want significant toe out in the front for turn-in, and then depending on how the car is setup, rear toe out for turn-in, or rear toe in for high-speed stability. You'd also want as much positive caster in the front as you can achieve for your class (which is not very much for STX, and none at all for stock). That leaves rear camber to dial in handling response. The problem with this setup is that the car is no longer daily drivable unless you are made of money for tires. Plus, it often allows drivers to liven up the rear end enough that it's no longer safe to drive on the streets during emergency maneuvering.
|
|
|
Post by dkdekes on Feb 24, 2014 12:22:32 GMT -6
My toe recommendation is for tire wear in daily driving, not for autocross. Non-zero toe is what chews tires up more than increased negative camber, so if you're autocrossing and daily driving on the same alignment, you want zero toe or very close to it. More negative static front camber is expressly to fight the shortcomings of macpherson struts and how they lose camber under load - as the car rolls in the turn, you want the amount of negative static camber in the outside wheel to result in the tire having the greatest contact patch area at maximum cornering force. Since andystl isn't going to be putting 8k springs on his car, he needs more negative static front camber. It has the added benefit of increasing grip at the front, rather that making the rear more lively - a safer decision again for a DD. Now, if it's a race-specific alignment we're talking (which, is probably what the evo on hoosiers is for, or he swaps between two alignments at the track), then you want significant toe out in the front for turn-in, and then depending on how the car is setup, rear toe out for turn-in, or rear toe in for high-speed stability. You'd also want as much positive caster in the front as you can achieve for your class (which is not very much for STX, and none at all for stock). That leaves rear camber to dial in handling response. The problem with this setup is that the car is no longer daily drivable unless you are made of money for tires. Plus, it often allows drivers to liven up the rear end enough that it's no longer safe to drive on the streets during emergency maneuvering. The hoosier lancer guy actually told me that, at least with his evo, the stock alignment settings had some inward rear toe (a couple degrees). This is for the same reason that you state; that rear inward toe helps with stability, so manufacturers work it in as a safety feature. I'd imagine. It obviously wears tires more, and for people who are good with car control, all it's doing is shredding your tires and ruining your turn in. But I've looked around and can't actually confirm that the subarus do in fact have rear toe in from the factory.
|
|
|
Post by memmek2k on Feb 24, 2014 12:29:18 GMT -6
Stock Subaru alignment is 0/-1.5 f/r camber, 0 toe all around, iirc.
|
|
|
Post by dkdekes on Feb 24, 2014 21:26:27 GMT -6
Alright. Guess I need to resort to swaybars
|
|
|
Post by memmek2k on Feb 25, 2014 8:06:10 GMT -6
IIRC for stock class autocross, you can run as much front negative camber as the stock bolts will allow (about -0.5, -0.75 if you beat on things with a rubber mallet). But yeah, a front sway bar would help (you're only allowed to replace or add one, last time I checked for stock class).
For STX/STU, you can do up to coilovers and camber plates with front and rear sways, so it's a lot easier to get to an ideal suspension setup. Like I said, I think STX/STU is a sweet spot for subarus.
|
|
ryanr
Junior Member
Posts: 64
|
Post by ryanr on Feb 26, 2014 8:23:37 GMT -6
IIRC for stock class autocross, you can run as much front negative camber as the stock bolts will allow (about -0.5, -0.75 if you beat on things with a rubber mallet). But yeah, a front sway bar would help (you're only allowed to replace or add one, last time I checked for stock class). For STX/STU, you can do up to coilovers and camber plates with front and rear sways, so it's a lot easier to get to an ideal suspension setup. Like I said, I think STX/STU is a sweet spot for subarus. I like all of what memmek2k is saying. Wish I would have done more research on my car before doing the EWG a while ago (the noise is worth it though ). My classing as a result is so hard to be competitive. Definitely research your goals prior to mods.
|
|